4. 'They wished for, praised, desired, abandoned (sensual pleasures), O Punnaka,'--so said Bhagavat,--'they desired sensual pleasures on account of what they reached by them; they, devoted to offering, dyed with the passions of existence, did not cross over birth and old age, so I say.' (1045)

5. 'If they, devoted to offering,'--so said the venerable Punnaka,--'did not by offering cross over birth and old age, O venerable man, who then in the world of gods and men crossed over birth and old age, O venerable man, I ask thee, O Bhagavat, tell me this?' (1046)

6. 'Having considered everything[1] in the world, O Punnaka,'--so said Bhagavat,--'he who is not defeated anywhere in the world, who is calm without the smoke of passions, free from woe, free from desire, he crossed over birth and old age, so I say.' (1041)

Punnakamanavapukkha is ended.

5. METTAGUMANAVAPUKKHA.

1. 'I ask thee, O Bhagavat, tell me this,'--so said the venerable Mettagu,--'I consider thee accomplished and of a cultivated mind, why are these (creatures), whatsoever they are of many kinds in the world, always subject to pain? (1048)

2. 'Thou mayest well ask me concerning the origin of pain, O Mettagu,'--so said Bhagavat,--

[1. Parovaraniti parani ka orani ka parattabhavasakattabhavadini parani ka orani ka ti vuttam hoti. Commentator.]

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'I will explain that to thee in the way I myself know it: originating in the upadhis pains arise, whatsoever they are, of many kinds in the world. (1049)

3. 'He who being ignorant creates upadhi, that fool again undergoes pain; therefore let not the wise man create upadhi, considering (that this is) the birth and origin of pain.' (1050)

4. Mettagu: 'What we have asked thee thou hast explained to us; another (question) I ask thee, answer that, pray: How do the wise cross the stream, birth and old age, and sorrow and lamentation? Explain that thoroughly to me, O Muni, for this thing (dhamma) is well known to thee.' (1051)

5. 'I will explain the Dhamma to thee, O Mettagu,'--so said Bhagavat,--'if a man in the visible world, without any traditional instruction, has understood it, and wanders about thoughtful, he may overcome desire in the world.' (1052)

6. Mettagu: 'And I take a delight in that, in the most excellent Dhamma, O great Isi, which if a man has understood, and he wanders about thoughtful, he may overcome desire in the world.' (1053)

7. 'Whatsoever thou knowest, O Mettagu,'--so said Bhagavat,--'(of what is) above, below, across, and in the middle, taking no delight and no rest in these things, let thy mind not dwell on existence. (1054)

8. 'Living so, thoughtful, strenuous, let the Bhikkhu wandering about, after abandoning selfishness, birth,