7. Upasiva: 'Has he (only) disappeared, or does he not exist (any longer), or is he for ever free

[1. Sabbesu kamesu yo vitarago
Akinkannam nissito hitva-m-annam
Sannavimokhe parame vimutto
Titthe nu so tattha ananuyayi.

2. Titthe ke so tattha ananuyayi
Pugam pi vassanam samantakakkhu
Tatth' eva so siti siya vimutto
Bhavetha vinnanam tathavidhassa?

3. Akki yatha vatavegena khitto
Attham paleti na upeti samkham
Evam muni namakaya vimutto
Attham paleti na upeti samkham.]

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from sickness? Explain that thoroughly to me, O Muni, for this Dhamma is well known to thee[1].' (1074)

8. 'For him who has disappeared there is no form, O Upasiva,'--so said Bhagavat,--'that by which they say he is, exists for him no longer, when all things (dhamma) have been cut off, all (kinds of) dispute are also cut off[2].' (1075)

Upasivamanavapukkha is ended.

8. NANDAMANAVAPUKKHA.

1. 'There are Munis in the world,'--so said the venerable Nanda,--'so people say. How is this (understood) by thee? Do they call him a Muni who is possessed of knowledge or him who is possessed of life[3]?' (1076)

2. Buddha: 'Not because of (any philosophical) view, nor of tradition, nor of knowledge, O Nanda, do the expert call (any one) a Muni; (but) such as wander free from woe, free from desire, after having secluded themselves, those I call Munis[4].' (1077)

[1. Atthangato so uda va so n' atthi
Udahu ve sassatiya arogo,
Tam me muni sadhu viyakarohi,
Tatha hi te vidito esa dhammo.

2. Atthangatassa na pamanam atthi,
Yena nam vaggu tam tassa n' atthi,
Sabbesu dhammesu samuhatesu
Samuhata vadapathapi sabbe.

3. Nanupapannam no munim vadanti
Udahu ve giviten' upapannam?

4. Na ditthiya na sutiya na nanena
Munin ka Nanda kusala vadanti,
Visenikatva anigha nirasa
Karanti ye te munayo ti brumi.]

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3. 'All these Samanas and Brahmanas,'--so said the venerable Nanda,--'say that purity comes from (philosophical) views, and from tradition, and from virtue and (holy) works, and in many (other) ways. Did they, in the way in which they lived in the world, cross over birth and old age, O venerable man? I ask thee, O Bhagavat, tell me this.' (1078)

4. 'All these Samanas and Brahmanas, O Nanda,'--so said Bhagavat,--'say that purity comes from (philosophical) views, and from tradition, and from virtue and (holy) works, and in many (other) ways; still they did not, in the way in which they lived in the world, cross over birth and old age, so I say.' (1079)