which was always charming alike to the learned and the illiterate, to the old and the young, to men and women, to the great and the lowly. The whole company sat mute and looked in silence on His Divine face. Was there any trace now of that serious illness from which He was suffering? Joy alone was there, and radiance of celestial glory. Turning to the doctor, Sri Ramakrishna began:

[Three obstacles in the way of perfection.] Do give up shyness, doctor. One should not be shy in repeating before others the Name of the Lord, or in dancing with joy while chanting His sweet name. Do not care what people may say. There is a proverb: "Three obstacles lie in the way of perfection,--shyness, contempt and fear." The shy man thinks: "I, who am so important, how can I dance in the name of the Lord? What will other great people say if they hear of it?" They may say: "What a shame! The poor doctor has lost his head! He has danced while chanting the Name of the Lord!" Give up all such foolish ideas.

Doctor: That is not my line at all. I do not care what people say.

Sri Ramakrishna (smiling): On the contrary,

you do care very much. [True knowledge and ignorance.] Go beyond knowledge and ignorance, then you will realize God. Knowledge of diversity is ignorance. The egotism bred of erudition proceeds from ignorance. That knowledge by which we know that God exists everywhere is true knowledge. But to know Him intimately is realization (Vijnana).

[Realization.] Suppose your foot is pierced with a thorn, you require a second thorn to take it out. When the first thorn is taken out you throw both away. So in order to get rid of the thorn of ignorance you must bring the thorn of knowledge. Then you must throw away both ignorance and knowledge to attain to the complete realization of God, the Absolute, for the Absolute is above and beyond knowledge as well as ignorance. Lakshman once said to his Divine Brother: "O Rama, is it not strange that a God-knowing man like Vashishta Deva should have wept for the loss of his sons and would not be comforted?" [Knowledge is relative.] Thereupon Rama replied: "He who has knowledge has also some ignorance. He who has knowledge of one object has also the knowledge of many objects. He who has the knowledge of light has also the

knowledge of darkness, but Brahman the Absolute is beyond knowledge and ignorance and above virtue and vice merit and demerit, purity and impurity."

Syam Babu: Sir, may I ask what remains after both thorns are thrown away?