A devotee: These are some of the obstacles; but there may be others. The children may be disobedient or may be diseased. Then, Revered Sir, what is to be done?

Ramakrishna: It is very difficult for a householder to practise devotion. There are many obstacles. You all know them very well,--disease, sorrow, poverty, disharmony with the wife, disobedience and evil tendencies in the children; but there is a way out of it. One should occasionally live in solitude and pray and struggle hard to attain to God.

A householder: Revered Sir, is it necessary to leave one's home?

Ramakrishna: Not for good; but occasionally when you find opportunity, for a day or two, leaving behind responsibility, care and anxiety. But during this time you should not mix with worldly people or think of worldly affairs. Either live alone, or in the company of some saint or holy man.

Householder: Revered Sir, how can we know or recognize a saint?

[How to recognize a saint.] Ramakrishna: He is a saint whose heart, soul, and inner nature have turned towards God; he who has renounced woman and wealth. A saint does not look at women with the eye of desire; if he comes near a woman, he sees the Divine Mother in her and worships her. His thoughts are always on God and his words are of Him. He sees God everywhere

and knows that by serving others, he serves Him. These are some of the outward signs of a saint.

Householder: Revered Sir, is it necessary to remain long in solitude?

Ramakrishna: Until right discrimination is acquired.

Householder: Revered Sir, what is right discrimination?

[Right discrimination.] Ramakrishna: God is Truth, the world is untruth; this is discrimination. Truth means that which is unchangeable and permanent, and untruth is that which is changeable and transitory. He who has right discrimination knows that God alone is the Reality; all other things are unreal. When right discrimination comes, then rises intense desire to know God. As long as one loves untruth, such as the pleasures and comforts of the body, fame, honor and wealth, so long one does not desire to know God, the Truth. Right discrimination between Truth and untruth leads one to search after God.

Another householder devotee: Bhagavan, we have heard that Thou hast attained to ecstasy and God-consciousness; wilt Thou please explain when and how such a state comes?

[Ecstasy.] Ramakrishna: Ecstasy does not come to one who has not realized God. When a fish rises from deep water, it disturbs the surface of the water, and the larger the fish, the greater the disturbance. Therefore, a person in the state of ecstasy sometimes laughs, sometimes weeps, sometimes sings, sometimes dances, but one cannot remain in that state of ecstasy for a long time.

Householder devotee: Bhagavan, we have heard that Thou hast seen God. If this be true, please make us see Him also.