'(But if they make him renounce) injury to creatures which are, for the time being, movable beings, except on the order (from an established authority)--as the householder caused one of the captured thieves to be set free--(if they take this vow), those who make this renunciation, make a good renunciation; those who cause this renunciation to be made, cause a good renunciation to be made; in causing another to make this renunciation, they do not annul their own allegation. Though in this way a correct expression is found, some (monks) from anger or greed cause the householder to make the renunciation (without the necessary restriction). Is not this our interpretation right? O long-lived Gautama, do you approve of it?' (7)

And Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "O long-lived Udaka, we certainly do not approve of it. The Sramanas or Brahmanas who say thus, speak thus, declare thus, and explain thus, do not speak as Sramanas or Nirgranthas, they speak noxious speech. They mislead laymen. They make void all vows undertaken for sparing particular living beings . Why do I say this? Beings belong

to the Circle of Births; though they be (now) immovable beings, they will (some time) become movable ones, (&c., all as in section 6, down to) when they leave the bodies of movable beings, they will be born in the bodies of immovable ones. When they are born in the bodies of movable beings, it is a sin to kill them." (8)

And Udaka, the son of Pedhala, spoke thus: 'Which beings do you call movable beings? movable ones or others? '

And Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "O long-lived Udaka, what you call beings which are, for the time being, movable ones, we call movable beings; and what we call movable beings, you call beings which are, for the time being, movable ones. Both expressions are equal, and mean the same thing. O long-lived one, why do you think it more correct to say: beings which are, for the time being, movable ones; and why do you think it incorrect to say: movable beings, that you censure the one expression, and applaud the other? This your interpretation is not right. (9)

"And the Venerable One has spoken thus: Some men there are who say: we cannot, submitting to the tonsure, renounce the life of a householder and enter the monastic state, but we shall gradually conform to the Gotra (i.e. community of the monks). Accordingly they make known the limits , fix the limits, determine the limits (beyond which they will not go in the enjoyment of worldly goods); and

renounce injury to movable beings, except on the order (of an established authority)--as the householder caused one of the captured thieves to be set free. And this turns out to their benefit. (10)