The Venerable One gave an illustration: "I put a question to the Nirgranthas: O long-lived ones, (suppose) there be some men who have made the following declaration: 'I shall not inflict punishment on those who, submitting to the tonsure, renounce the life of a householder and enter the monastic state; but I shall inflict punishment on those who lead a domestic life.' Some Sramana, who for four or five years, or for six or ten years--the period may be shorter or longer--has wandered about in the land, returns to domestic life. Now answer me: does the man break his word when he puts to death this (renegade) householder?" 'Certainly not!' "It is just the same with a follower of the Sramanas, who has renounced injury to movable beings, but not to immovable ones. If he kills immovable beings, he does not transgress his vow. This you acknowledge, O Nirgranthas, this you must acknowledge!" (14)

The Venerable One gave another illustration: "I put a question to the Nirgranthas. O long-lived Nirgranthas, (suppose) there be householders or sons of householders, born in respectable families, who come to you for instruction in the Law. Ought they to be instructed in the Law?" 'Yes, they should.' "When they have learned and understood this Law, will they say: this creed of the

[paragraph continues] Nirgranthas is true, supreme, excellent, full of virtues, right, pure, it removes doubts, it is the road to perfection, liberation, Nirvana; it is free from error and doubts, it is the road of those who are free from all misery; those who adopt it will reach perfection, (&c., all down to) put an end to all misery; exerting ourselves we shall control ourselves with regard to all kinds of living beings.--Will they speak thus?" 'Yes.' "Should such men be admitted to the order?" 'Yes, they should.' "Should such men be instructed in the discipline and kept to attend to religious instruction?" 'Yes, they should.' "Do they renounce injury to every living being?" 'Yes, they do.' "Now (suppose) one of these men who lead such a life, after wandering about in the land for four or five years, or for six or ten years--the period may be shorter or longer--returns to domestic life. Will this man (still) abstain from doing injury to every living being?" 'No.' "The same man who at first (as a householder) had not renounced injury to every living being, who afterwards has renounced, and who now does not renounce injury to every living being, did at first not control himself, did so afterwards, and does not so now. As long as he does not control himself, he does not renounce injury to every living being . This you acknowledge, O Nirgranthas, this you must acknowledge!" (15)

The Venerable One gave (another) illustration: "I put a question to the Nirgranthas. O long-lived